NEW YORK, NY - APRIL 23: (NEW YORK DAILIES OUT) (L-R) Jason Kidd #5, Carmelo Anthony #7 and J.R. Smith #8 of the New York Knicks look on against the Boston Celtics during Game Two of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals of the 2013 NBA Playoffs on April 23, 2013 at Madison Square Garden in New York City. The Knicks defeated the Celtics 87-71. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this Photograph, user is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)
NY Knicks: Comparing this team to the 2012-13 team
by Ken Tavarez
Carmelo Anthony, Amar’e Stoudemire, Knicks. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)
This season has been a welcomed surprise for NY Knicks fans. There is a lot to feel good about as the team has exceeded expectations. The Knicks are poised to return to the playoffs for the first time in 8 seasons, not since 2012-13, when they won 54 games.
The 2012-13 Knicks were a fun team, but everyone knew that they were built just for that one season. That Knicks’ team was the oldest team in NBA history with an average age of 32 years old. At the time, the strategy made sense because the Knicks were in win-now mode as they had Carmelo Anthony in his prime. However, the next season the Knicks fell to 37 wins and missed the playoffs.
While the current Knicks’ roster has a longer shelf life, it does make you wonder how much of this season’s success is sustainable? Let’s review the keys to success and see what can we realistically count on and what needs to be retooled in the offseason.
NY Knicks fans</a>. There is a lot to feel good about as the team has exceeded expectations. The Knicks are poised to return to the playoffs for the first time in 8 seasons, not since 2012-13, when they won 54 games.</p>
<p>The 2012-13 Knicks were a fun team, but everyone knew that they were built just for that one season. That Knicks’ team was the oldest team in NBA history with an average age of 32 years old. At the time, the strategy made sense because the Knicks were in win-now mode as they had Carmelo Anthony in his prime. However, the next season the Knicks fell to 37 wins and missed the playoffs.</p>
<p>While the current Knicks’ roster has a longer shelf life, it does make you wonder how much of this season’s success is sustainable? Let’s review the keys to success and see what can we realistically count on and what needs to be retooled in the offseason.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> Culture </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-117315" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2134,w_3200/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1310950828.jpeg" alt="Norvel Pelle, John Henson, NY Knicks" width="3200" height="2134" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1310950828.jpeg 3200w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1310950828-768x512.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 3200px) 100vw, 3200px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:3200px;">Norvel Pelle, John Henson, NY Knicks (Photo by Nic Antaya/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>NY Knicks: What is team culture?</h2>
<p>The term team culture gets used a lot in sports. In the NBA it is usually code for how do we get our best players to buy-in. You’ve seen the Nets fire their coach, trade away their homegrown players, and change team rules just to keep their stars happy. In the NBA that is more the norm than the exception since it’s a players’ league.</p>
<p>The NY Knicks on the other hand have chosen to instill a culture centered around their coach instead of their best players. <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://theknickoftimeshow.com/is-knicks-thibodeau-the-coach-of-the-year/">Coach Thibodeau’s culture is rooted in hard work,</a> tough defense, and attention to detail. It is actually a return to the Knicks’ core values when they won under Red Holtzman, Pat Riley, and Jeff Van Gundy.</p>
<p>A lot of teams were scared to hire a coach like Thibs as they thought his style didn’t resonate with today’s young star players. Could you imagine the Brooklyn trio of Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, and James Harden playing for Thibs???</p>
<p>The Knicks are no longer pandering to every possible big-name player on the market. They are saying, “<em>hey we are not for everyone</em>“. We are not the team for players that just want to get their numbers and take plays off on defense. While that sounds like a risky position to take in a players’ league, it’s the right approach.</p>
<p>The New York market is not for everyone and especially for players that are not fully committed to winning. Putting that out there will only attract players that are truly serious about playing for the Knicks.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> Mike Woodson's Knicks </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-113231" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2218,w_3200/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F457346167.jpeg" alt="NY Knicks" width="3200" height="2218" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/457346167.jpeg 3200w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/457346167-768x532.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 3200px) 100vw, 3200px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:3200px;">Mike Woodson, JR Smith, Knicks. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>NY Knicks: Comparison to Mike Woodson’s team</h2>
<p>Ironically, the head coach of the 2012-13 team was an assistant coach on this season’s team. Mike Woodson did a great as head coach of the Knicks considering the circumstances. However, he was not able to truly infuse a culture of accountability. He preached all of the right things but relied heavily on the veteran players to enforce it. Once Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace, Kenyon Martin, and Jason Kidd left the following season, dysfunction immediately started to bubble up.</p>
<p>That was because the team’s best player Carmelo Anthony hadn’t truly bought in. He was fine with Woody as long as he catered to his needs. But the relationship became strained once the coach had to hold his best player accountable without the help of respected vets.</p>
<p>Luckily for Thibs, he doesn’t have that issue. All the players, including their leader, Julius Randle, have completely bought into the culture.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> Supporting Cast </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="wp-image-117943 size-full" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_1067,w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F08%2F460640728.jpeg" alt="NY Knicks" width="1600" height="1067" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2018/08/460640728.jpeg 1600w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2018/08/460640728-768x512.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:1600px;">Pablo Prigioni, NY Knicks. (Photo by Alex Goodlett/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>NY Knicks: 2021 Role players vs. 2013</h2>
<p>Part of the reason the Knicks weren’t able to build on the success of the 2012-13 season was that they didn’t have enough good young players. The team was literally put together with scotch tape. The two rookies on the team Pablo Prigioni and Chris Copeland were 35 and 28 years old. Steve Novak was just a 3-point specialist that was approaching 30 years of age.</p>
<p>The only player they had under 25 was Iman Shumpert, who was 22 years old that season but was recovering from a torn ACL. As for the core players under 30; Carmelo Anthony (28), JR Smith (27), and Raymond Felton (28). Melo was the only player in that group worth investing in the long term.</p>
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<p>New York Knicks, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin Mandatory Credit: John Minchillo/POOL PHOTOS-USA TODAY Sports</p>
<p>This season’s Knick team is quite the opposite, it is one of the younger teams in the NBA with an average age of just under 26. Of the players in the rotation, four are under 25 years of age: Barrett (20), Quickley(21), Obi Toppin(22), and Mitchell Robinson(22). The other role players Reggie Bullock and Alec Burk who will turn 30 next season and Nerlens Noel is 27.</p>
<h2>NY Knicks: 2021 Point guards vs. 2013</h2>
<p>It’s no coincidence that the best season the Knicks have had this century was when Jason Kidd helped orchestrate the offense. Even at the end of his career, Kidd was the connector that made the Knicks’ offense click. His superior passing led to many open shots. It’s the reason the <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_ratings.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener" ref="nofollow">NY Knicks were the 3rd ranked offense per 100 possessions and shot 37.6% from beyond the arc, 4th best that season.</a></p>
<p>Part of the reason the Knicks have surpassed expectations this season is because of the acquisition of Derrick Rose, they are 19-8 with Derrick Rose. The play from the point guard position has dramatically improved as he commands more respect from the defense and makes better decisions than the starter, Elfrid Payton.</p>
<p>While Rose is one of the oldest players on the team, he is still a lot younger than Jason Kidd was when he joined the Knicks. Rose is 32 years old compared to Kidd who was 39. Rose still has at least 1 more season of high-level production left in him. So the Knicks have until 2022 before being forced to find a new point guard.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> Star Players </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-96525" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_1181,w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2015%2F10%2F454297309.jpeg" alt="Knicks" width="1600" height="1181" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2015/10/454297309.jpeg 1600w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2015/10/454297309-768x567.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:1600px;">(Photo by Bruce Bennett/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>NY Knicks: Star players in 2021 vs. 2013</h2>
<p>The highest-paid players on the 2012-13 Knicks were Carmelo Anthony, Amar’e Stoudemire, and Tyson Chandler. Only one of the three was a true franchise player. Injuries caught up to Amar’e and he started to lose his superior athletic ability. He only played in 29 games in 2012-13, and never regained his old form. Chandler was a nice defensive center but was very limited offensively. Even Melo only had one more franchise player caliber season for the Knicks before he started to descend from stardom.</p><div class="widget fs_ads"> <div class="fs_ad_widget-ad" style="margin:0 auto; width: 300px;"> <div class="fs-ll-ad" data-ad-type="minutemedia_slideshow_inline_300x250__desktop__tablet" data-vendor="minutemedia">
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<p>When you look at the 2020-21 Knicks, their best player is Julius Randle who is only 26 years old. That is 2 years younger than Melo(28) was in 2012-13. He is also outplaying his contract, he only makes $19.8M this year and has one season remaining. The NY Knicks’ next best player is RJ Barrett who is only 20 years old and is in the 2nd year of his rookie contract.</p>
<p>Even though the Knicks starting center Mitchell Robinson has missed a lot of games this season due to injury. He is only 22 years old compare to Chandler who was 30 in 2012-13. Mitch also gets paid a lot less, only makes $1.7M, and has 1 season left on his deal.</p>
<p>Then there is the NY Knicks’ ability to upgrade the roster and add another star. In the 2013 offseason, the Knicks had limited options since they were over the salary cap and thin on assets. The Carmelo Anthony trade in 2011 cost the Knicks two of their promising young players; Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, as well as two 1st round picks. The Knicks ended up gambling on Andrea Bargnani, sending two more 1st round picks in the trade with Toronto for him.</p>
<p>However, in the summer of 2021, <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/01/ny-knicks-comparing-team-2012-13-team/"https://dailyknicks.com/2021/03/27/knicks-trade-deadline-collecting-draft-picks-future/">the Knicks will have a treasure chest of draft picks and plenty of cap space to add players</a>. They are also not desperate to make a move like the Knicks were in 2013. So there is no reason that the Knicks can’t build upon this season’s success and become a team that consistently wins 50 games per season for the foreseeable future.</p>
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