Derrick Rose, Tom Thibodeau, New York Knicks. (Photo by Michael Reaves/Getty Images)
As the New York Knicks prepare for their first-round matchup with the Atlanta Hawks, they have a big question that doesn’t need any sort of intricate framing: Why is Elfrid Payton still starting?
I understand there has already been so much written about this, but I want to just quickly address the bizarre, hollow arguments about how his role on the team is some sort of essential part of the Knicks’ newfound success.
This idea that because the New York Knicks are winning, if they move Payton out of the starting lineup, the entire ship will sink.
We will lose our “bulldog mentality” and Randle will regress and RJ Barrett won’t be a shooter and we will lose our draft picks and everything will be ruined! If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! We’re a team! Big-15! If we take Payton out of the starting lineup we will lose all of that chemistry! Anyways…
New York Knicks: What Elfrid Payton brings
I’ve been trying to figure out the actual basketball justifications as to why Elfrid Payton has a significant role for a while now. What I typically land on is the fact that he’s a “physical” player.
He’s in the starting lineup because Tom Thibodeau wants his team to set the tone for the game early. From an even more basketball-skills standpoint, Payton likes to go to the rim, which I believe is something Thibodeau values in his point guard. He wants his point guard to slash.
So while Payton’s net impact has been negative all season long, the team was still doing well.
However, his play has actually diminished to a dangerous place where it’s been a direct cause of offensive droughts and suspect defense.
When the Knicks win, it’s easy to forget the long periods of ineptitude when he’s on the floor. Those long stretches are going to catch up with the Knicks in the playoffs if something doesn’t change soon.
New York Knicks</a> prepare for their first-round matchup with the Atlanta Hawks, they have a big question that doesn’t need any sort of intricate framing: Why is Elfrid Payton still starting?</p>
<p>I understand there has already been so much written about this, but I want to just quickly address the bizarre, hollow arguments about how his role on the team is some sort of essential part of the Knicks’ newfound success.</p>
<p>This idea that because the New York Knicks are winning, if they move Payton out of the starting lineup, the entire ship will sink.</p>
<p>We will lose our “bulldog mentality” and Randle will regress and RJ Barrett won’t be a shooter and we will lose our draft picks and everything will be ruined! If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! We’re a team! Big-15! If we take Payton out of the starting lineup we will lose all of that chemistry! Anyways…</p>
<h2>New York Knicks: What Elfrid Payton brings</h2>
<p>I’ve been trying to figure out the actual basketball justifications as to why Elfrid Payton has a significant role for a while now. What I typically land on is the fact that he’s a “physical” player.</p>
<p>He’s in the starting lineup because Tom Thibodeau wants his team to set the tone for the game early. From an even more basketball-skills standpoint, Payton likes to go to the rim, which I believe is something Thibodeau values in his point guard. He wants his point guard to slash.</p>
<p>So while Payton’s net impact has been negative all season long, the team was still doing well.</p>
<p>However, his play has actually<a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://nypost.com/2021/05/16/elfrid-payton-hits-bottom-with-knicks-starting-job-in-danger/" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> diminished to a dangerous place where it’s been a direct cause of offensive droughts and suspect defense.</a></p>
<p>When the Knicks win, it’s easy to forget the long periods of ineptitude when he’s on the floor. Those long stretches are going to catch up with the Knicks in the playoffs if something doesn’t change soon.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> Payton's recent dip in play </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="wp-image-115575 size-full" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_1090,w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1303587989.jpeg" alt="New York Knicks" width="1600" height="1090" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1303587989.jpeg 1600w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1303587989-768x523.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:1600px;">Elfrid Payton, New York Knicks (Photo by Sarah Stier/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>New York Knicks: Elfrid Payton has regressed late in the season</h2>
<p><a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://dailyknicks.com/2021/02/25/knicks-diminish-elfrid-paytons-role/">I’ve said earlier in the season that I don’t even mind Payton starting</a> because of how great the duo of Rose and Quickley is off the bench – I just wanted him to play fewer minutes.</p>
<p>Thibodeau actually made that adjustment in April and reduced Payton’s minutes per game and started to hand Derrick Rose a bigger role. Rose took it and ran with it, and the adjustment of more-Rose, less-Payton improved the team.</p>
<p>A defense against changing the starting lineup I have also heard is the idea that teams don’t make adjustments in the playoffs.</p>
<p>Not true. You have to beat the same team 4 times, and you’re going to continuously learn what works and what doesn’t in your specific matchup as the series progresses.</p>
<p>We’re also not talking about a lineup change around RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Derrick Rose, Reggie Bullock, or anyone who has actually been instrumental to the team’s success. We’re talking about replacing a guy who sometimes brings the ball up the court and floats around. Teams make role player adjustments all of the time in the playoffs.</p>
<p>Payton was a part of that “physical tone-setting” that the Knicks get from the lineup of Randle, Noel, Barrett, and Bullock.</p>
<p>Now? He’s not a part of any “tone-setting” or “physicality”. He has been getting absolutely cooked on defense while being a complete non-factor as a scorer or as a facilitator.</p>
<p>He looks disengaged. It’s tough, he’s part of the team and everyone wants him to succeed. However, it’s gone beyond just being a “non-factor” – he’s a nuisance.</p>
<p>In his last 4 games, he’s had as many turnovers as points scored. In his last 6 games, opponents who are defended by Payton have<a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203901/defense-dash/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=6%22 target="_blank" rel="noopener"> shot 20.8% better than their average field goal percentage</a>. They are shooting 66.7% from the field… you read that correctly.</p>
<p>We’re talking NBA playoffs now, not just forgettable stretches of regular-season games. Changes may have to be made.</p>
<div class="next-slide slider"> <a class="next-slide-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="next-slide-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"#"> <span class="title">Next:</span> What the change may look like </a>
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<img decoding="async" loading="lazy" class="size-full wp-image-116696" src=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2133,w_3200/https%3A%2F%2Fdailyknicks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2017%2F07%2F1298239940.jpeg" alt="New York Knicks" width="3200" height="2133" srcset="https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1298239940.jpeg 3200w, https://dailyknicks.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1298239940-768x512.jpeg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 3200px) 100vw, 3200px"><div class="fs-center-img">
<p class="wp-caption-text" style="width:3200px;">Frank Ntilikina, New York Knicks. (Photo by Abbie Parr/Getty Images)</p>
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<h2>New York Knicks: Could Frank Ntilikina take on Payton’s small role?</h2>
<p>Putting Frank Ntilikina into the starting lineup to take over Elfrid Payton’s role, a role that is already so minimal in its’ responsibilities, makes sense.</p>
<p>Having Ntilikina out there as a spot-up shooter for the first few minutes of the first and third quarters would tremendously help the spacing of the first unit. It gives Julius Randle another shooter kick-out option.</p>
<p>Ntilikina has actually been a tremendous catch-and-shooter in his limited action this season. <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3_PCT&dir=1%22 target="_blank" rel="noopener">He shoots a whopping 48.6% on catch-and-shoot threes. </a>Especially over the last month, he’s looked ready to step in at any point in the game.</p>
<p>Payton is not a better defender than Ntilikina. Maybe he has more “experience” but in no way can he be as impactful on defense as Ntilikina. The Knicks are going to need tough defense from their backcourt against Trae Young and Bogdan Bogdanović.</p>
<p>Between Ntilikina’s active hands, wingspan, and ability to actually rotate and not be a mismatch against taller opponents, Ntilikina can make plays on defense that are simply out of the realm of possibility for Payton.</p>
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<p lang="en" dir="ltr">FRANK SAID NO <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://t.co/7L3D3d7jlw">pic.twitter.com/7L3D3d7jlw
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<p>Ntilikina may still have the stink of being a draft bust and not living up to the “point guard of the future” expectations, but in a limited role, he can make an impact. He’s out there for 3-and-D.</p>
<p>I think Rose and Quickley off the bench together is most effective and that seems to be what Thibodeau believes as well. They provide a finesse scoring punch that can be overwhelming for opposing 2nd units.</p>
<p>Rose still plays his big minutes in the 4th, but Ntilikina can come out to start the halves and bring that defense and tone-setting.</p>
<p>I would love nothing more than for Elfrid Payton to come out in Game 1 and prove me and so many others wrong. I would love to see him play within his capabilities, play solid defense on the Hawks backcourt and have a net-positive impact on the game.</p>
<p>It would be a welcome change from aimlessly attacking the basket with the ball and having his <a href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://twitter.com/tommybeer/status/1394080669337325569?s=21%22 target="_blank" rel="noopener">hands on his hips while parked in the corner without the ball</a>. The Knicks have been playing 4-on-5 with him on the floor this past week and it’s unacceptable.</p>
<p>I will take the more cautious prediction in that Thibodeau isn’t going to do anything for game 1.</p>
<p>However, if there is zero change to Elfrid Payton’s recent play, I fully expect there to be a change in game 2.</p>
<div class="fs-shortcode" data-type="StoryLink" data-theme="dark" data-text="NYK-ATL: 3 matchups that will decide the series" data-url="https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/17/new-york-knicks-atlanta-hawks-3-matchups/" data-call-to-action="Next"> <div class="story-link-next"> <a class="story-link-next-btn" style="background: #007BC1" data-track="shortcode" data-track-action="story-link-next-shortcode" href=https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/18/knicks-planning-secret-starting-lineup-change/"https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/17/new-york-knicks-atlanta-hawks-3-matchups/"> <span class="call_to_action">Next:</span> NYK-ATL: 3 matchups that will decide the series </a> </div>
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